We found the following complaints for RAM 3500 (2020)
Read complaints for RAM 3500 (2020)
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated while attempting to start the vehicle, he depressed the start/stop button several times however, the vehicle failed to start. After waiting for approximately 45 minutes the vehicle started. The contact also stated the vehicle failed to recognize the key fob inside the cabin of the vehicle. The contact called the local dealer and made them aware of the failure. The vehicle was not diagnosed nor repaired. The manufacturer had been informed of the failure. The failure mileage was approximately 70,000.
I bought my truck in tampa, fl in august with 23k miles truck has 30k now i was driving thanksgiving morning after filling tank off in a trusted gas station that i fill all my 3 trucks 2016, 2018, 2020 ram 3500. I drove about 35 miles and truck started to decelerate lost power within 2 miles and engine shut down and never started again i took to the arrigo dodge tamaracdealer and after 6 days the mechanic diagnosed that fuel has regular gas in it because they never has seen this to happened before. They said the only was fuel pump explode is that lacks of lubrication. They don't have a clue what are they saying i had my father in law ask the mechanic to give a sample of the diesel and after mechanic giving all bunch of excuses finally we got a sample. I have been resourcing and there are other truck with same problem in different states. Truck is under warranty and it seems to be that they are calling the wrong diagnose with no support documents.
We were driving our 2020 ram 3500 diesel with a 2000-pound truck camper in the bed on a city street attempting to make a right turn through a yield sign when the engine suddenly stopped completely without the ability to restart it.this resulted in sudden loss of acceleration, power steering, and power breaks, leading to a near collision with a large pole and possibly other vehicles in the in the intersection.although we missed the pole and other vehicles, it was extremely difficult to avoid due to loss of power steering and braking.had our speed been slightly higher, a collision would have been unavoidable.after having our truck inspected by the dealership, it was determined that the cause of the engine breakdown was the bosch cp4.2 injection pump catastrophically failing (or "grenade-ing" or "imploding" as the dealership put it) resulting in the complete destruction of the entire fuel system, stopping all fuel flow to the engine.after this happened to us, we did some research and found that the bosch cp4.2 injection pump has been determined to be incompatible with diesel fuel found in the usa due to lack of lubricity, and has other fundamental design defects that together make catastrophic failure almost inevitable in vehicles driven in the usa.most previous ram 3500's used a reliable bosch cp3 injection pump, but starting in 2019 model years switched to the less expensive cp4.2 even though this issue has been known to ram and cummins due to the countless incidents of catastrophic failure in other vehicles using the same pump for many years.had we known this prior to purchasing our truck, we would not have purchased it.we were surprised and disappointed to find out that vehicles using this dangerous injection pump have not been recalled.
The 2019 to 2020 model year ram 2500 heavy duty equipped with a 6.7l cummins diesel engine has a safety issue that could cause a stall and increase the risk of a crash. The bosch cp4.2 fuel injection pump has a very high rate of sudden failure leading to immediate stoppage on the engine and engine braking system.the pump destroys itself and takes out the rest of the entire fuel system leading to repairs in the $15,000-20,000 usd range. Fca & ram have attempted to revise the pump in late (july) 2020 to solve the issue but the failures keep occurring. For the 2021 model year, fca & ram haveswitched back the pump entirely and reverted back to using an older, safer, more reliable design cp3. No public announcements of neither the pump revision in 2020, nor the pump change in 2021 have been made. The issue is so prevalent that the replacement pumps and repairs generally have a 30-90 day wait period where the customer is without the primary vehicle. This problem is a substantiated safety risk. According to a texas judge in a bosch cp4.2 lawsuit, when another automaker, gm tried to dismiss the case saying the pump failure is not a safety issue, the court responded: "the worst case scenario of a truck spontaneously stalling at high speeds is not a mere inconvenience. Nor is it a mere inconvenience to spend between $8,000 to $20,000 on repairs to make the trucks fit for their ordinary purpose. The court rejects gm's suggestion that the risk of spontaneous engine failure while driving is not, as a matter of law, unreasonably dangerous, depriving the vehicles of fitness for their purpose of transportation.". Toyota agrees: "if a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash". Fca & ram have remedied the situation for the 2021 model year however, the 2019 and 2020 owners are still at risk.
My truck like all 2019-2020 trucks have the plagued cp4 pump that could fail without showing any symptoms. Fca has failed to step up and have ownership and integrity on this issue. I have asked multiple times to ram cares and all i have received is cookie cutter answers from them. I do not know if mine will be next to go or ever will go but fca has a solution in the 2021 hd ram trucks and that is the cp-isb21 fuel pump which looks like the old reliable cp3 fuel pump. Companies out have a solution and that is the cp3 swap but it voids the warranty on the vehicle. The warranty is what is holding me back from having the cp3 pump swap done. Can you please pressure fca to step up have integrity to replace the plagued cp4 fuel pump with the cp-isb21 pump. I have challenged fca on their integrity and ask them if they have it because of the cookie cutter answers i have received from them. I have even asked them to look up what integrity is and to follow the integrity example from the naval nuclear power program because that program is built on integrity. That program has safely steamed on nuclear power for over 60 years. Please again force fcaā€™s hand on this because this is unsat of them. Look at the forums online and you will see people posting their trucks that have a failed cp4 pump. With that failure fca is just replacing it another cp4 pump. Also peopleā€™s hd rams are down for weeks up to months waiting on the repair. I have also talked to dealership service managers about this issue and they are stumped on why fca has not issued a recall. Thank you.
While driving at highway speed a rod came through the engine block. I was fortunate i was able to coast to the shoulder of the highway before coming to a complete stop. I was towing a trailer. The engine gave no indication anything was wrong. The only notable thing was the lost of fuel mileage that begin to decrease earlier in the day. The ram engineering department is holding up the dealer from repairing the engine. They also have another there with a similar issue. They can't provide a timeframe on when the repair will be done. No rental or loaner vehicle is given. This is my work truck and no income while the truck is down.
The 2019 to 2020 model year ram 2500 heavy duty equipped with a 6.7l cummins diesel engine has a major safety issue that could cause a stall and increase the risk of a crash. The bosch cp4.2 fuel injection pump has a very high rate of sudden failure leading to immediate stoppage on the engine and engine braking system. The pump destroys itself and takes out the rest of the entire fuel system leading to repairs in the $20,000 usd range. Fca & ram have attempted to revise the pump in late (july) 2020 to solve the issue but the failures keep occurring. For the 2021 model year, fca & ram have changed the pump entirely and reverted back to using an older, safer, more reliable design. No public announcements of neither the pump revision in 2020, nor the pump change in 2021 have been made. The issue is so prevalent that the replacement pumps and repairs generally have a 30-90 day wait period where the customer is without the primary vehicle. This problem is a substantiated safety risk. According to a texas judge in a bosch cp4.2 lawsuit, when another automaker, gm tried to dismiss the case saying the pump failure is not a safety issue, the court responded: "the worst case scenario of a truck spontaneously stalling at high speeds is not a mere inconvenience. Nor is it a mere inconvenience to spend between $8,000 to $20,000 on repairs to make the trucks fit for their ordinary purpose. The court rejects gm's suggestion that the risk of spontaneous engine failure while driving is not, as a matter of law, unreasonably dangerous, depriving the vehicles of fitness for their purpose of transportation.". Toyota agrees: "if a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash". Fca & ram have remedied the situation for the 2021 model year however, the 2019 and 2020 owners are still at risk. The nhtsa needs to force fca to recall these trucks.
Truck caught fire in engine compartment.i had just gotten on the freeway and reached 70mph when i could see smoke coming from the engine.pulled over and it quickly became engulfed in flames.state farm claim 28-18q6-12relizabeth anderson, claim specialist, 844-292-8615x2539126712
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated while driving 65 mph and towing a generator up a hill, the vehicle stalled with the diesel exhaust and engine stability control warning lights illuminated. The vehicle was not drivable. The vehicle towed to platinum chrysler dodge ram jeep located at 65 tx-557 spur, terrell, tx 75160, (469) 249-9407, where it was diagnosed with needing the fuel pump to be replaced. The vehicle was not yet repaired. The manufacturer had been informed of failure. The failure mileage was approximately 16,684.
Power steering went out while driving at highway speeds. Warning comes on the display advising that the power steering needs to be serviced. Steering wheel becomes very stiff.
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated while at a standstill the vehicle lost motive power. The vehicle was restarted and functionality returned for several seconds before the failure recurred. There was no warning light illuminated. The vehicle was towed from the scene and diagnosed with a high-pressure fuel system failure. The manufacturer was not informed of the failure. The failure mileage was approximately 31,296.
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated while driving 45 mph, the vehicle lost motive power. The vehicle was restarted and the functionality returned however, the failure recurred after several seconds. There was no warning light illuminated. The vehicle was towed from the scene. The vehicle was diagnosed with a high-pressure fuel system failure. The manufacturer was not informed of the failure. The failure mileage was approximately 17,018.
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated while driving 65 mph and towing a generator up a hill, the vehicle stalled with the diesel exhaust and engine stability control warning lights illuminated. The vehicle was not drivable. The vehicle towed to platinum chrysler dodge ram jeep located at 65 tx-557 spur, terrell, tx 75160, (469) 249-9407, where it was diagnosed with needing the fuel pump to be replaced. The vehicle was not yet repaired. The manufacturer had been informed of failure. The failure mileage was approximately 16,684.
I bought my truck just over a month ago and was told i had to add lubricant to my fuel in order to keep my fuel pump from blowing up, as well as only put in 'good diesel.'i know diesel can change from one gas station to another, but to add a lubricant in order to keep my fuel pump from blowing up on and brand new $80000 truck! allbecause of the cp4 that ram decided to use for two years, then went back to the cp3 in 2021.thousands of people have having their pumps blow up in the first 10000 miles, being left stranded for months because they have to redo the entire fuel system at a price tag of $17000.i have had surging issues that are making me nervous to the point that i'm willing to take a $10000 loss on my truck and trade it in for a different one.i don't want to be left stranded on the way to work one day because fca doesn't want to recognize they put in a defective part that is cause catastrophic failure and leaving us consumer out of a vehicle for months.this has to change!
I purchased a knew 20 ram 3500 and all though i haven't had the issue happen to me yet,i'm a nervous wreck that it will and my family and i will be stranded.there are hundreds if not thousands of people having experienced a catastrophic failure of the fairly new cp4 fuel pump. When this goes,it takes out the whole fuel system resulting in $17,000 worth of damage.what's worse is that your stranded ,with out a vehicle.dealerships are only doing a limited amount of loaners but not a vehicle equal to what you had.some have waited for months and fca doesn't appear to be doing anything to correct these issues.some of us travel hundreds of miles at a time with an rv in tow that is a considerable amount of weight.quite often when you travel,there is nothing around or place to coast to,or even in the most best areas.thecp3 was proven equipment that worked well and while i understand and encourage the advancement of technology,you have to be willing to acknowledge a problem when you have one,especially what could result in a safety issue.these cp4 fuel pumps need to be recalled untill further research is done to correct the ongoing highly expensive issue that is putting all 2019 & 2020 vehicles with this pump at a safety risk within a rapid rate of only under 10,000 miles and or less. Ignoring the problem and doing nothing is irresponsible and negligible. The anxiety that this is causing my family let alone all the others,is very mentally and physically taxing on one's life. Please investigate this and help all of us involved get a little piece of mind and a more reliable product than the cp4,that is almost guaranteed to fail within a short amount of time.
I bought my truck in tampa, fl in august with 23k miles truck has 30k now i was driving thanksgiving morning after filling tank off in a trusted gas station that i fill all my 3 trucks 2016, 2018, 2020 ram 3500. I drove about 35 miles and truck started to decelerate lost power within 2 miles and engine shut down and never started again i took to the arrigo dodge tamaracdealer and after 6 days the mechanic diagnosed that fuel has regular gas in it because they never has seen this to happened before. They said the only was fuel pump explode is that lacks of lubrication. They don't have a clue what are they saying i had my father in law ask the mechanic to give a sample of the diesel and after mechanic giving all bunch of excuses finally we got a sample. I have been resourcing and there are other truck with same problem in different states. Truck is under warranty and it seems to be that they are calling the wrong diagnose with no support documents.
My 2020 ram 3500 cummins 6.7 lost the injector pump (cp4.2) and i'm told it's about 15k to fix and will take 2 months to fix due to back ordered parts.
New ram shut down & wont run. Diagnosis done by dealer to conclusion of fuel system failure. Dealer said no parts available to fix truck. 3rd truck since late june. 2019 ram 2500 with diesel engine fail 30000mi2020 ram 3500 with same engine 9600mi2020 ram 3500 4400mi which turn out to have consecutive vin#first ram failed parked second ram failed in motion 3rd ram failed parked
I was driving on interstate 270 nb when all of sudden the vehicle started shaking and lost power. I had to stop in the middle of the interstate and was towed to the exit by the highway response team.towed the vehicle to the dealership and was told the the fuel system has to be replaced.
The 2019 to 2020 model year ram 2500 heavy duty equipped with a 6.7l cummins diesel engine has a major safety issue that could cause a stall and increase the risk of a crash. The bosch cp4.2 fuel injection pump has a very high rate of sudden failure leading to immediate stoppage on the engine and engine braking system. The pump destroys itself and takes out the rest of the entire fuel system leading to repairs in the $20,000 usd range. Fca & ram have attempted to revise the pump in late (july) 2020 to solve the issue but the failures keep occurring. For the 2021 model year, fca & ram have changed the pump entirely and reverted back to using an older, safer, more reliable design. No public announcements of neither the pump revision in 2020, nor the pump change in 2021 have been made. The issue is so prevalent that the replacement pumps and repairs generally have a 30-90 day wait period where the customer is without the primary vehicle. This problem is a substantiated safety risk. According to a texas judge in a bosch cp4.2 lawsuit, when another automaker, gm tried to dismiss the case saying the pump failure is not a safety issue, the court responded: "the worst case scenario of a truck spontaneously stalling at high speeds is not a mere inconvenience. Nor is it a mere inconvenience to spend between $8,000 to $20,000 on repairs to make the trucks fit for their ordinary purpose. The court rejects gm's suggestion that the risk of spontaneous engine failure while driving is not, as a matter of law, unreasonably dangerous, depriving the vehicles of fitness for their purpose of transportation.". Toyota agrees: "if a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash". Fca & ram have remedied the situation for the 2021 model year however, the 2019 and 2020 owners are still at risk. The nhtsa needs to force fca to recall these trucks.
I am one of the many 19-20 hd ram owners out there that have the plagued bosch cp4 fuel pump. It is essentially a time bomb waiting for off because when it goes it send metal throughout the fuel system making the vehicle inoperable. That is bad especially those of us that tow heavy. I have asked ram multiple times on when they plan to help us 19-20 owners out and i keep getting a cookie cutter answer from them that nothing is in the works even though the 2021 model hd rams have the reliable cp3 fuel pump and it is a direct swap out. Luckily nothing has yet happened to my vehicle but i worry when i drive towing our home around, full time living in an rv, that the fuel pump will grenade itself. When that fuel pump goes about half of the time the dealerships are not honoring the warranty claim because they blame it on bad fuel but how can we control if the fuel we get is bad or good, specifically water in fuel. Owners are being stabbed with a 10k to 20k repair bill to replace the entire fuel system. Please force ram to issue a recall to replace the cp4 pump with the cp3 pump so that we do not drive around with a plagued fuel pump anymore. Tell them to do their job because you expect me to do mine. I am nuclear propulsion plant operator/supervisor for 20 plus years in the navy and we scrutinize everything to ensure safe and reliable operation of nuclear propulsion plants.
The 2019 to 2020 model year ram 2500 heavy duty equipped with a 6.7l cummins diesel engine has a major safety issue that could cause a stall and increase the risk of a crash. The bosch cp4.2 fuel injection pump has a very high rate of sudden failure leading to immediate stoppage on the engine and engine braking system. The pump destroys itself and takes out the rest of the entire fuel system leading to repairs in the $20,000 usd range. Fca & ram have attempted to revise the pump in late (july) 2020 to solve the issue but the failures keep occurring. For the 2021 model year, fca & ram have changed the pump entirely and reverted back to using an older, safer, more reliable design. No public announcements of neither the pump revision in 2020, nor the pump change in 2021 have been made. The issue is so prevalent that the replacement pumps and repairs generally have a 30-90 day wait period where the customer is without the primary vehicle. This problem is a substantiated safety risk. According to a texas judge in a bosch cp4.2 lawsuit, when another automaker, gm tried to dismiss the case saying the pump failure is not a safety issue, the court responded: "the worst case scenario of a truck spontaneously stalling at high speeds is not a mere inconvenience. Nor is it a mere inconvenience to spend between $8,000 to $20,000 on repairs to make the trucks fit for their ordinary purpose. The court rejects gm's suggestion that the risk of spontaneous engine failure while driving is not, as a matter of law, unreasonably dangerous, depriving the vehicles of fitness for their purpose of transportation.". Toyota agrees: "if a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash". Fca & ram have remedied the situation for the 2021 model year however, the 2019 and 2020 owners are still at risk. The nhtsa needs to force fca to recall these trucks.
The 2019 to 2020 model year ram 2500 heavy duty equipped with a 6.7l cummins diesel engine has a safety issue that could cause a stall and increase the risk of a crash. The bosch cp4.2 fuel injection pump has a very high rate of sudden failure leading to immediate stoppage on the engine and engine braking system.the pump destroys itself and takes out the rest of the entire fuel system leading to repairs in the $15,000-20,000 usd range. Fca & ram have attempted to revise the pump in late (july) 2020 to solve the issue but the failures keep occurring. For the 2021 model year, fca & ram haveswitched back the pump entirely and reverted back to using an older, safer, more reliable design cp3. No public announcements of neither the pump revision in 2020, nor the pump change in 2021 have been made. The issue is so prevalent that the replacement pumps and repairs generally have a 30-90 day wait period where the customer is without the primary vehicle. This problem is a substantiated safety risk. According to a texas judge in a bosch cp4.2 lawsuit, when another automaker, gm tried to dismiss the case saying the pump failure is not a safety issue, the court responded: "the worst case scenario of a truck spontaneously stalling at high speeds is not a mere inconvenience. Nor is it a mere inconvenience to spend between $8,000 to $20,000 on repairs to make the trucks fit for their ordinary purpose. The court rejects gm's suggestion that the risk of spontaneous engine failure while driving is not, as a matter of law, unreasonably dangerous, depriving the vehicles of fitness for their purpose of transportation.". Toyota agrees: "if a vehicle stall occurs while driving at higher speeds, this could increase the risk of a crash". Fca & ram have remedied the situation for the 2021 model year however, the 2019 and 2020 owners are still at risk.
I was towing my 5th wheel trailer from rancho cucamonga to san diego. When i was driving on i-15, almost nearby exit 15. Suddenly there is a error on the screen , said 'exhaust brake system failed , ask me go to dealer'. Then i found there is no power anymore . I tried to press the pedal again , still no power.then i rolled over to the side of the freeway. When the speed came down to about 15mph, the engine stopped. Then i pooled over , and tried to restart it . Nothing happened. I can hear it trying to start, but no start anymore. Then i called roadside department to tow my truck and trailer away . It took 6 hours to find the tow company, but still didn't come. Then i paid the tow company, then they came to save me and tow my truck to the dealer.
My truck like all 2019-2020 trucks have the plagued cp4 pump that could fail without showing any symptoms. Fca has failed to step up and have ownership and integrity on this issue. I have asked multiple times to ram cares and all i have received is cookie cutter answers from them. I do not know if mine will be next to go or ever will go but fca has a solution in the 2021 hd ram trucks and that is the cp-isb21 fuel pump which looks like the old reliable cp3 fuel pump. Companies out have a solution and that is the cp3 swap but it voids the warranty on the vehicle. The warranty is what is holding me back from having the cp3 pump swap done. Can you please pressure fca to step up have integrity to replace the plagued cp4 fuel pump with the cp-isb21 pump. I have challenged fca on their integrity and ask them if they have it because of the cookie cutter answers i have received from them. I have even asked them to look up what integrity is and to follow the integrity example from the naval nuclear power program because that program is built on integrity. That program has safely steamed on nuclear power for over 60 years. Please again force fcaā€™s hand on this because this is unsat of them. Look at the forums online and you will see people posting their trucks that have a failed cp4 pump. With that failure fca is just replacing it another cp4 pump. Also peopleā€™s hd rams are down for weeks up to months waiting on the repair. I have also talked to dealership service managers about this issue and they are stumped on why fca has not issued a recall. Thank you.
Power steering went out while driving at highway speeds. Warning comes on the display advising that the power steering needs to be serviced. Steering wheel becomes very stiff.
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated while driving at various speeds, the trailer brakes failed intermittently while the brake pedal was depressed. The turn signals and brake lights also failed to function properly. The vehicle was taken to the dealer and diagnosed that the rear bumper brake plugs were installed incorrectly causing water to fill the brake plugs. The vehicle was not repaired. The manufacturer was made aware of the failure and informed the contact that the brake plugs were installed and functioned as intended. The manufacturer suggested that the vehicle be taken to another dealer to be diagnosed. The failure mileage was 7,000.
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated while driving 75 mph hauling a horse trailer, the power steering malfunctioned. The power steering warning light was illuminated. The contact steered the vehicle straight for six miles since there was a truck in front and behind her. The contact was finally able to pull off a straight away exit ramp and pull over to the side of the road. The vehicle was towed to the nearest dealer - larry green auto group (350 s. Broadway, blythe, ca 92225 (760) 922-7121) to be diagnosed. The contact was informed that there were some loosened wires to the power steering module. The vehicle was repaired and test driven. The vehicle was picked up however, the failure recurred. The vehicle was towed back to the same dealer but was not repaired. The manufacturer was made aware of the failure. The failure mileage was 3,000.
While descending a mountain pass, travelling at 75 mph, pulling a 20' enclosed car trailer, message in cluster said "power steering unavailable" and the power steering was gone. Pulled over, checked for leaks, blown fuse, and belt condition and found no issues. Restarted vehicle and it functioned for about 3 seconds and quit and displayed the message again. Vehicle has approximately 3,200 miles on it. Took vehicle to dealership on 12/18/2020, have made numerous calls to ram customer service, and the best information they can give me is that the part will be available on 1/18/2021. I am on vacation 2,000 miles from home and stranded.
Power steering went out while driving at highway speeds. Warning comes on the display advising that the power steering needs to be serviced. Steering wheel becomes very stiff.
My wife was driving on a highway with a trailer.power steering went out.it was near impossible for her to pull over as the vehicle was extremely hard to turn.not safe!
Good afternoon,as i was traveling down the interstate today my tailgate unexpectedly opened with no action of mine. A passing traveler signaled to me that this happened, and i was very lucky that nothing came out of my bed to strike a vehicle behind me. I was towing a travel trailer and the tailgate sustained damage from striking the trailers jack. Not sure if this is a new issue, but i have seen similar recalls on rams from years past.
The contact owns a 2020 ram 3500. The contact stated that the vehicle was attached to a trailer. After driving and arriving at the residence, the contact became aware that the tailgate had fallen inadvertently while driving, causing damage to the tailgate and the trailer. The contact took the vehicle to auffenberg chrysler dodge jeep ram (176 auto ct, o'fallon, il 62269, (618) 622-4546) to be diagnosed. The contact was informed that the keyfob was unintentionally depressed while in his pocket, causing the tailgate to open inadvertently. The manufacturer was notified of the failure. The failure mileage was 4,000.
The tpms system on my new 2020 ram 3500 has suffered repeated failures since it was purchased new. The dealership has replaced all 6 sensors (dually) in an effort to fix the issue, no no success. Now, the service writer seems to have accepted the problem as unsolvable. Quick research on social media, and statements made to me by my local service writer lead me to believe this is not an isolated issue. The 2020 rams seem to all suffer this com loss to some extent. As, this is now a mandated safety feature under the tread act, i'm asking for your assistance.specifically for my truck, the truck lost communication with one sensor on the day after i bought the truck. Over the course of the next month, it lost and occasionally regained, communication with several of the sensors. But, it never again worked fully of its own accord. About 6 weeks after purchase, the dealership replaced all 6 sensors. That night all 6 were working. The next morning, the truck had lost communication with two of them. About a week later, a third died. The service writer at my local dealership says its probably a computer problem, not a really a safety issue and he won't know if ram comes out with a fix. Problem is ongoing.*dt*dt
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